script:
Unions in China, they are way different than they are here in the US, many fact. In fact, things they are more about controlling Chinese workers rather than helping them. US labor leaders though, we learn, working with Beijing just the same. One big American Union has been working in china and has successfully organized Wal-Mart store workers over there. Sound a good idea? Should US labor groups help the Chinese government organize its workers? Sijing Chen is a China analyst with the Eurasia group and Peter Morici is a former economist with the US International Trade Commission, business professor of the University of Maryland as well. Folks, thanks to you. We learned in the Wall Street Journal front page today, Service Employees International Union headed up by Andy Stern, he has been over there, helping out "Unions". But Peter, are the Unions, they are not what we think of here, right? Is this a good idea for a US labor group to be helping out essentially the Chinese government?

I think it’s a terrible idea. You know, we think of company unions in Japan that really work, control the workers for the companies. In China, we have company unions that control the workers for the government. The All China Labor Federation which will represent the workers of Wal-Mart is really an instrument of the government in Beijing; It will get 2% of the wages of the workers which will just create sinecures around the country. People sitting in Union hall that are there to exercise political control. Andy Stern is helping put further into the future any kind of real democratic reform or true labor rights in China. This is an absolutely terrible idea. I think he's doing it to be a contrariant and he's hurting the labor movement in the United States by doing it.

Sijin, what do you think?

Well, I think it’s important to realize that the Chinese government is really the driving force behind the recent changes in china’s labor policy. Let’s look at some of the things that they have done. With or without the help from American Union leaders, they have been working on a new labor contract law that is going to make it more difficult to fire workers and is going to extend labor contract coverage to all workers if it's possible. And they have also begun unionizing multinational corporations, which they are trying to now do with domestic companies as well.

But SiJin, I think, the question or the worry that Peter is raising and that a lot of folks have pointed out is, is that a mechanism for Beijing to control those workers?

Well, if we look at the policies though; political control has traditionally been a concern for the Chinese government. But they (I don't have a bright... ) are also trying to increase the wages for, for the Chinese workers.

I didn't hear you ,Sijin, they are trying to do what for the, in terms of wages?

Um, they are also trying to increase wages for Chinese workers, they are beginning to try collective bargaining, and for some of the industries (what’s going on?), they have come up with regulations on (it was all silent)

Peter, you are having trouble hearing?

Ok, I am sorry.

Peter, can you hear me?

Yes, I can.

Ok, great, let me move this conversation forward here a little bit. You know, there has been all these focus on the Chinese investment in Blackstone. And some of these senators are saying that this is er, some kind of national security threat, do you think they're gonna be as tough on the Union groups here about working in China?

Well, I don’t know how they can't be because all they are really doing is becoming, is choosing to become involved in them politically. It’s their right to do that, just as Wal-Mart can invest in China.

They can job on it , they can pass laws, they can do all kinds of things, can't they?

Well, I think it’s going to be difficult to really do something, especially with a democratic majority and given how beholding it is to the labor movement to labor political majorities. I don’t really see the Congress coming down too hard on, on Andy Stern for this, so the AFL-CIO Sweeney is gonna go over there. I just think it’s a bad idea. I know that a lot of Chinese scholars are very comfortable with the continuation of Communist Party controlling China and they would like to point to whatever progress to the workers, you know, make there. However, it remains that as long as they can exercise this kind of control, through the Union’s free labor movement just is not possible in China and real workers’ rights and real collective bargaining won’t be around in China any time soon.

SiJin, you get the last word here, we just have a few seconds left.

Well, I think the Chinese government, for its own purposes, is trying to introduce new policy that’s going to raise the wages for Chinese workers. Um, well, that is enough though, is up to each Union leader to decide.

All right, SiJin Cheng, and Peter Morici, thanks so much.

Thank you.

Notes:
AFL: American Federation of Labor
CIO: Congress of Industrial Organizations