A capitalist-loving Republican against Wal-Mart? Where would you find such a person? Well, you expect Walmart bashing from union types and liberals, but not one of the GOP's most trusted former advisers, advisers like Terry Holt, who says that Walmart is giving capitalism a bad name. He just joined the Wal-Mart Watch team. Terry, this is a bit of a surprise, why?

Hi, Neil, well, you know, Wal-Mart, uh, it has its roots in small-town , America , in red-state America. But lately Walmart's lost its way and in, in, for lots of different reasons but specifically, Wal-Mart is a huge recipient of co, corporate welfare. In fact, a couple of years ago, they got 35 million dollars from the federal government to repave their driveway, now this is the largest cooperation in America, in the world in, for retail. And, and I just wonder if the American taxpayers should be footing the bill for things like that, and also for things like health care for tens of thousands of Americans who work at Walmart. The state government and the federal government pick up the tab because Walmart does not give a health care benefit that in the forces there-- it doesn't give an-an adequate health care benefit, and it forces these people onto the public rolls and it costs me, a republican money.

Yeah. But Terry, you could argue, I understand that but you could argue that a lot of the workers not covered are not full-time workers. And workers at Walmart as ..., with a lot of other (ur) convenience stores, retailers establishments come and go. So is that the fault of a company just being cruel to its workers or one that just recognizes its financial realities of a shifting workforce.

Well, but in fact Walmart had in, in documents that have been disclosed to the public, er, not to Wal-Mart's happiness, but they have made conscious decisions to prevent people from becoming full-time workers, and keeping them part-time workers, so that they can't even qualify for benefits, forcing them on to the public rolls for an even , even longer period of time. And frankly, you know, Walmart is, ur. . you know, it's, it's a highly successful company, but we have very low expectations for it, you know, price is keen at Walmart and all of us have been to Walmart because of price. But I wonder if most Americans, there's seventy million Americans who go to Walmart, I wonder if they would be surprised to know that their tax dollars being taken out of their bag pocket even while they are saving money.

But Terry you would argue Wal-Mart's a successful institution that has generated a lot of revenue that has helped a lot of people that for Americans who shop there, it's also meant a big difference in saving a lot of money on everyday items they purchase, right?

That's right, but there, there are better ways to do this, in fact, you know, Walmart used to make a big deal, of "Buying American" and in small towns all over America, most of us maybe still think that's true. But I'm not sure that most Americans know that 70 percent of Walmart's products are of Chinese origin. Even now do they make the point. . .

Yeah. But Terry, you know now one of the workers I've seen at Walmart, (ur) that I've noticed, chained to a cash register or chained to an aisle, they are working there, their own volition they seem pretty happy with it. It's provided jobs and many of them would have never been able to find any. I mean, you seem to vilify a company that, that's done a lot of good as well.

Well, in fact I'm not vilifying the company, I would like to see the company become a better neighbour, to become a better corporate citizen. You know, Walmart is unique because of its size, it's a huge company. And many people are, are looking it as an example of success. I just don't want that success to result in, in a corporate culture where we, we are inspiring people to be the lowest common denominator. We are expect(ing) more from our companies. (All right. ) I think that republicans ought to be in a position to say that a company in coming into its community is doing the community good. (OK. ) But in fact when Walmart goes into a community, small businesses close, Christian bookstores close. (Alright, maybe. )

Well, all right. I wish I had more time, Terry, but you argue your point very well. Good to have you on.

Thanks, Neil.

Terry Holt, thanks.