We have been hearing a couple of things about this, this news that Ford Motor Company is slashing up to 30, 000 jobs, shutting down 14 plants nationwide, American automakers trying to get in on the road to recovery, and industry they once dominated. So, what if the unthinkable happens, and America never, ever gets its mojo back in motor vehicles. Then what happens? What if we are prominently alsorans to the likes of Asia and Europe. Is that such a big deal? If we do all the buying but none of the making.

With us now, is Malcolm Bricklin, he is the CEO, and a founder of Visionary Vehicles. He plans to sell Chinese-made vehicles to the American market by 2007. And Mark Gillies is the executive editor of Automobile Magazine. Mark, at it with you, begin with you, is it a big deal if we are no longer manufacturing these cars?

I think it's a huge deal, I mean the, the companies are massive employers both directly and indirectly. If you look at Ford after their restructuring, they've actually got 87, 000 employees which is twice as many as Microsoft have worldwide. Moreover, if you look at the, the . . . , those, those jobs, they are very high-paying jobs, these are people who can afford to buy their own products, unlike , er, the employees at Wal-Mart or people of flipping burgers at McDonald, do you know, they can't afford to buy an F150. The guys on the line at Ford can.

Er, it's a good point, Malcolm, and the one that seems to indicate a big hit for our economy if these jobs go bye-bye. What do you make of that?

Yeah, I agree. By the way, I, I mean it's a really sad day for America, but I will tell you, it goes deeper than just pension, and it goes deeper than just expensive labor. You know, 'cause we're down to the dealer, it's not a pleasant experience to go buy cars right now, and I think there is a major restructuring that the major car companies have to do.

Yeah, but it's not any more pleasant going to a Nissan or Toyota dealer, right?

That, that's true, by the way, I have navigated a whole change in the whole industry. (Right)

The whole way is being done.

But, Neil, now Ford and GM have an opportunity. Unfortunately the word's bankruptcy.

Yeah.

But it's an opportunity to restructure and may be take a lead in the industry that definitely needs a lead.

You know, Mark, I am not wishing this upon anyone here. But if we were to lose our auto industry manufacturing in this country, many feared disastrous consequences if we were not (at) the place making VCRs, if we were not the place making televisions and yet, the American economy went merrily on even as those type of jobs did not. What do you make of that?

I, I think that's slightly naive because one of the beauties about the car industry is these are very very high-value items, I mean, one of those things is that if you look at the financial situation of the companies, GM, for instance, doesn't actually turn over much less than Wal-Mart does. Wal-Mart has 1. 3 million employees, I think. And if you look at GM, they, they, in 2005, they had 181, 000 employees.

But Mark it's not as if cars are stopped being made, right? That, the likes of Toyota, and, and, and so many these others do have plants in this country, and are making vehicles in this country, they are just not American companies doing so.

Well, there is still, you know, there is still a large number of cars being made by American manufacturers, I think people forget that. More than half of the American cars sold in America are American for instance, so what's happened over time is that as the market share has fallen, foreign car companies have come in, and they have taken over plants. Effectively they've set up new plants, and they have taken over that capacity. So, it's not like, there are less cars being produced in America than there were 30 years ago.

Well, Malcolm, let me ask you about the Chinese coming in, er. . How serious is that threat? what would it mean to American jobs, if and when that happens?

Well, it's a serious threat, of course, it is. We are gonna go right in the middle market, in the 20s, which is a market that has been held by most of the manufacturers very comfortably because they sell cars in the 30s to 50s. So, it's gonna be serious but I think it's gonna give an opportunity to the American manufacturers to look seriously at where their place is in this world, and I think there is a very major place for them. It just has to be restructured again from top to bottom. (Right)

I, I, Excuse me if I can butt in that, I. . . I disagree with that, the Chinese cars we have seen so far aren't that great and they don't have the branding that's necessary to make a huge impact in the world, world stage.

Well, neither were the Japanese cars, neither were the South Korean cars, when they first came in, they were considered you know, tin cans with wheels and I think they've come a long way.

Mark, you are right, by the way, the cars you have seen from China do not meet what I just told you. But nobody has actually seen the cars I am talking about, except the one at the Shanghai Auto Show, that won car of the show I believe this year.

All right, Malcolm and Mark, thank you both very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.