In the third of a video series on designers’ private working spaces, we go into the studio with Donatella Versace to discuss self-esteem, mistakes and why drawing isn’t so important. And those were just the outtakes. (This conversation was condensed and edited.) VANESSA FRIEDMAN
米兰——在“设计师的私人工作空间”系列视频的第三集，我们走进多纳泰拉·范思哲(Donatella Versace)的工作室，讨论自信、错误以及素描为何不那么重要的原因。下文是其摘录（对话经过剪辑和浓缩）。
Q. When most people think of Versace, they think of the palazzo on Via Gesù, but it turns out you work somewhere else.

问：提起范思哲，大部分人想到的是耶稣街的豪华宫殿，没想到你实际上在别的地方工作。
A. I moved here 10 years ago. Before, my office was in Via Gesù, in the building where Gianni’s house was. Now we use that garden to do fashion shows, and we have a floor to do showrooms, but in this building are myself and my P.R. people, my assistants and some of the marketing people who work with P.R. Downstairs are all my design teams: first-line Versace woman, accessories, first-line Versace men, house, Versus, children, Versace jeans. Now, you know, I’m tending to realize how many lines we have. It’s scary. I don’t want to count. Sometimes to plan a meeting is impossible, so we talk in the corridor. Sometimes we shout.
答：我十年前搬到了这里。之前我的办公室在耶稣街詹尼(Gianni)的宅邸里。现在我们用那个花园举办时装秀，有一层是展厅。但是我和公关人员、助理以及部分市场人员在这里工作。楼下是我的全部设计团队：范思哲主线女装、配饰、范思哲主线男装、家居系列、Versus系列、童装、范思哲牛仔裤。现在，你知道，我开始意识到我们有多少个服装系列。太可怕了，我可不想去数。有时，连安排会议都很困难，所以我们就在走廊上交谈。有时我们大声喊话。
When you moved in, did you have to do a lot of work to the building?
问：你搬进来时，对这座大楼进行了很多改造吗？
Yes. Wherever I go, I need to be — to feel I’m in a Versace place, and this didn’t look like a Versace place. It looked like a normal office for, you know, bankers. I need to surround myself with objects that remind me of something.
答：是的。不管走到哪儿，我都需要感觉自己处在一个范思哲空间。这个地方当时看起来不像范思哲。它当时看起来像个给银行家用的普通办公室。我需要让自己周围有很多能唤醒我的东西。
For example?
问：比如？
The picture on the left wall is a joyful moment, when we were all in Miami: me, my children and Gianni, and we were having fun, having breakfast next to the pool, and doing taekwondo all together, and Gianni is in the water with Allegra. Those are the moments I cherish in my life.
答：左边墙上那幅照片让我想起曾经的快乐时光——当时我们都在迈阿密：我、孩子们和詹尼。我们玩得很高兴，在泳池边吃早餐，一起练跆拳道。詹尼和阿莱格拉(Allegra)在水里。我特别珍惜生命中的这些时刻。
You’ve got three seating areas in your office: couches, a round table and a desk. Do they have different purposes?
问：你的办公室有三个就座区：沙发、圆桌和书桌。它们有不同的用途吗？
I often sit here on the couch when I visit with my friends or a few of my designer teams. We watch videos of shows here, usually to correct mistakes. Yesterday, we were all sitting on the floor here, and we watched the couture show in Paris. And I asked them, “What went wrong?” I have to challenge people and push people to tell me the truth. I put myself in the place of these people. They are afraid that I’m going to fire them. But I think you have to push forward and challenge yourself all the time. You have to be ready to say, “This is old, go forget and start again.” I like to discover mistakes, to make it better. I don’t think I’m that good. I think I can do much better.
答：我的朋友或设计团队里的几个人来的时候，我们经常坐在沙发上。我们在这里观看时装秀的视频，通常是为了改正错误。昨天，我们坐在这里的地板上，观看我们在巴黎的高级定制时装秀。我问他们：“哪里有问题？”我必须盘问他们，迫使他们说出实情。我把自己置于和他们一样的位置。他们总是担心我会解雇他们。但是我觉得你必须一直前进，挑战自己。你必须随时说出：“这个太旧了，忘了它吧，重新开始。”我喜欢发现错误，把它变得更好。我觉得自己不够好。我觉得我能做得更好。
What mistake did you make?
问：你犯过什么错误？
I saw two models walking badly, not because they cannot walk but because I chose the wrong fabric to embroider. It was too light for the embroidery, so it was a little bit tricky when they walked.
答：我曾经看到两个模特走得很难看，不是因为她们不会走秀，而是因为我选错了刺绣的面料。那种面料太轻了，不适合刺绣，所以，模特走秀时有点别扭。
What happens at the round table?
问：圆桌是用来做什么的？
That table is scary. When I have to do a meeting with my C.E.O. or C.F.O. or some of the management team, and it’s a serious meeting, when I have something to say that they won’t like it, the most difficult things to resolve, what I think is not going well in the company, we sit around the table. So this table is wide, it’s gold, it’s very glamorous.
答：那张桌子很可怕。当我不得不和首席执行官、首席财务官或管理团队的一些人开会时，我们就会坐在那里。那些都是严肃会议，我会说一些他们不喜欢的话，讨论最难解决的问题，以及我觉得公司存在的一些问题。所以这张桌子很大，它是金色的，非常棒。
And the desk?
问：那张书桌呢？
It’s me going on the website and seeing what happens. Me and the computer. I am a very impatient woman. I cannot sit for long. I have to move. You see me more often in the center when I’m up and pounding the floor in this room.
答：我上网看新闻时坐在那里。那里只有我和电脑。我很没耐心，坐不住。我必须动起来。你经常能看见我在这个房间里蹦蹦跳跳。
Talk me through your day.
问：跟我谈谈你的日常生活吧。
I wake up very early in the morning — 6:30 to 7 — and do a little bit in the gym. Not because I love it but because I need to do it to keep my body healthy. And I have a light breakfast. I have a glam squad, who help me to do hair and makeup every morning. I don’t look like this when I wake up, you know. I need a little help. And then I go to the office and talk to my assistants, go through all the mail. And then I go straight downstairs and just wander around.
答：我早上很早就醒来——6点半至7点——在健身房锻炼一会儿。不是因为我喜欢锻炼，而是因为我需要这样做来保持身体健康。我早餐吃得很清淡。我有一个美容团队，他们帮我做头发、化妆。你知道我醒来时不是这样的。我需要一点帮助。然后我去办公室，和助手们谈话，看完所有的邮件。然后我直接下楼，四处查看。
Do you find inspiration in books?
问：你在书中寻找灵感吗？
I find inspiration in books, I find inspiration in memories. I like to travel. I like to look at people on the planes, I like to look at people in the streets in cities. I’m not a person who goes on vacation to retreat or to relax, because relaxing makes me nervous. If I go to relax, I get nervous.
答：我在书中寻找灵感，在记忆里寻找灵感。我喜欢旅行。我喜欢观察飞机上的人。我喜欢观察城市街上的人。我度假不是为了休息或者放松，因为放松让我紧张。一放松，我就紧张。
You don’t draw, so how do you communicate your ideas for a new collection?
问：你不画素描，那么你如何传达自己关于新系列的想法呢？
I think the drawing is the least important thing for today. I communicate through shapes. And proportion. Proportion is the most important thing in an outfit. If you are a really fashion victim, you don’t care about proportion — you’ll do, like, a huge skirt that nobody will walk in and go nowhere. But I’m a real woman, in a real life.
答：我觉得如今素描是最不重要的事情。我通过图形和比例去交流。比例对一件衣服来说最重要。如果你真的是不惜一切代价追求时髦，那么你可以不在乎比例——你可以穿一件没人会穿出去的超大裙子。但我是个现实的女人，生活在现实中。
How much do your clothes reflect you?
问：你的衣服在多大程度上体现了你的性格？
They reflect me in the sense of a modern woman, probably. But I have a very special body type: I’m not tall, and I’m not — I wear certain things. I try to convey this through my clothes: Be determined. Fight for what you believe, don’t be afraid, and get ready to be viewed by critics.
答：它们很可能体现了我作为现代女性的一面。但是我的身材很特别：我不高，我不——我只穿某些衣服。我想通过服装努力传达这一点：意志坚定。为你所信奉的理念奋斗，不畏惧，随时迎接批评家的评论。
How much does this work space reflect that attitude?
问：这个工作空间从多大程度上反映了那种态度？
This office reflects my open mind, because it’s white. You know, white is endless; you can go in a white tunnel and always see the lights. I think it’s a color that opens your mind, opens your spirit, you feel totally free, looking at white. But it doesn’t have to be a minimal white. Nothing’s minimal here.
答：这间办公室反映了我的开放心态，因为它是白色的。你知道，白色没有边际；你走进一个白色隧道，总能看见光。我觉得这种颜色能打开你的思维，释放你的灵魂，看着白色你感觉完全自由。但它不一定是极简主义的白色。这里所有的东西都不是极简主义的。
Do you have much distinction between your public and your private lives?
问：你的公众生活和私生活之间有很大不同吗？
My private life, nobody believes me, is really — when I finish my work, working here, I’ll go to a show or after-party, but when I get home from those things, I lock myself in the apartment and I don’t want to hear anything. I’m the most antisocial person you can think about. Even if nobody believes me. This is the city where I work, you know. I don’t have too many friends here. Actually I don’t have any friends at all, out of this office. My friends are around the world. I call them on the phone and talk.
答：没人会相信，我的私生活真的——我在这里完成工作后，会去观看时装秀或者参加余兴派对，但是我回家后，把自己锁在寓所里，不想听到任何东西。我是你能想到的最不爱社交的人。尽管没人相信这一点。你知道，这只是我工作的城市。我在这里没有太多朋友。实际上我在办公室之外没有任何朋友。我的朋友在世界各地。我们打电话联系。
What’s the hardest part of your job?
问：你的工作中最难的部分是什么？
It’s my self-esteem. I trained myself to hide my vulnerability and my insecurity for a long time. I give in to these two emotions only when I am alone. At the end of the day, I’m just kind of thinking, “Is it good enough?” The next day I wake up and I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that was fine.” But usually, in the evening, I have that half an hour that I think I did everything wrong.
答：自信。有很长一段时间，我训练自己隐藏脆弱和不安全感。只有在独处时，我才释放这两种情绪。每天结束时，我会想：“这够好吗？”第二天醒来我心想：“哦，是的，我昨天做得挺好的。”但是在晚上，总有那么半个小时，我觉得自己做得完全不对。