(单词翻译:单击)
That early story was one, but I also read in the book that you had like a fellow professor who was also convicted of fraud, like you’ve bumped into these people in your daily life on several occasions.
这是一个早期的故事，但我在书中读到你有一个教授同事，他也被判了欺诈罪，你在日常生活中屡次遇到这类人。
The interesting thing is, we all do.
有趣的是，我们都会碰到这类人。
If you just sort of stop and think, what’s your first fraud story or first fraud experience? A lot of us do.
如果你停下来想一想，你的第一个欺诈故事是什么？第一次欺诈经历是什么? 很多人都遇到过。
And you’re right, I did have a colleague, a great, great guy. He made some missteps, but a lot of us make missteps. We don’t always get caught, but some of us do.
你说得对，我确实有个同事，一个非常不错的人。他犯过一些错误，但我们很多人都犯过错误。我们并不总会被抓，但有些人会被抓。
This particular colleague, you would never suspect, and that tends to be the statement a lot of people say when fraud happens.
你永远不会怀疑这个同事，这是当欺诈发生时很多人都会说的话。
You would never suspect this person, because they’re nice, they’re friendly, we feel like we know them. You would never suspect it.
你永远不会怀疑这个人，因为这类人很好，他们亲切友善，我们觉得我们了解他们。你对此深信不疑。
And yet my friend was engaged in a large mortgage fraud scheme that landed him in federal prison.
但我的朋友却卷入了一场害他进了联邦监狱的大规模抵押贷款诈骗案。
And so all of us can get caught up in things, especially when we are in client serving businesses.
因此，我们所有人都可能牵扯进一些事情，特别是当我们身处客户服务行业。
When we are client facing and we want to keep our clients happy, sometimes we can make decisions that are not the best decisions.
当我们面对客户，想让客户满意时，有时我们会做出一些不是最好的决定。
A lot of people think about fraud and they think of Bernie Madoff or they think of Enron or just giant accounting fraud, corporate malfeasance scenarios.
很多人提到欺诈，他们会想到伯纳德·麦道夫、安然公司、大公司做假账、企业违法的场景。
And you’re saying that it’s kind of all around us all the time, even in small bits, but have real financial impact for people.
你是说，欺诈几乎一直都在我们身边，即使只占很小一部分，但对人们的财务却有真正的影响。
One of the things that I wanted to achieve with the book is changing this narrative around all people steal for money and all people are like a Bernard Madoff or Skilling from Enron. Everyone’s not like that.
我想通过这本书达到的目的之一是改变人们的叙事，即所有人都在为钱行不义之事，所有人都像伯纳德·麦道夫或安然公司的斯基林一样。并非每个人都是这样。
And so what I wanted to do is introduce this idea that you can be an intentional perpetrator, you can be an accidental perpetrator, or you can be a righteous perpetrator.
因此，我想介绍这样一个观点，你可以是一个故意犯罪者、非故意犯罪者、好人犯罪者。
And all three of those people have different profiles, and those profiles really impact our empathy towards them.
这三类人的个人档案不同，这些资料真的会影响我们对他们的同情程度。
I think it impacts the way they are sentenced, and I think it impacts the way that they are brought back into society after they have been incarcerated.
我认为这影响着他们被判刑的方式，也影响着他们蹲完监狱后重返社会的方式。
When you think about someone that is an intentional perpetrator, like a Bernard Madoff, those kinds of people set out to defraud. They typically have a lot of credibility, trust from people.
当你想到有人是故意实施犯罪，这类人像伯纳德·麦道夫一样开始行骗。他们通常很有信誉，人们对他们很信任。
They know a system and they know how to manipulate for their personal gain.
他们了解一个系统，他们知道如何为个人谋利操纵这个系统。
And so you can have even different types of intentional perpetrators, and those are who movies are made of.
你甚至可以看到不同类型的故意犯罪者，而这些人组成了电影中的人物。
If you watch any true-crime story case today, I would argue that it is profiling an intentional perpetrator.
如果你今天观看任何一个真实犯罪类故事，我要说这是对故意犯罪者的侧写。
