Hello again欢迎来到Happy Hour英文小酒馆。关注公众号璐璐的英文小酒馆，加入我们的酒馆社群，邂逅更精彩更广阔的世界。

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Sound of Musicals. 欢迎回来【曲外之音】。

Hi, Oliver.

Hello.

So today we're gonna continue with this very unique, controversial, difficult to talk about, makes us feel a little bit uncomfortable musical, called Kiss Me, Kate.

I think it's especially difficult for you, because as a man to talk about this…

Yeah, it’s, in itself, it shows differences between male and female opinions on it. And the musical itself talking about some of the aspects makes me feel uncomfortable, but mostly because I know it's completely wrong and it shouldn't be done today. And yet why do I enjoy it? It is uncomfortable there.

You're enjoying the music.

I enjoy the music, but the music is then attached to do this theme misogyny and theme of how they treat women, and it's not what should be done nowadays.

How they need to tame women.

Yeah, Taming the Shrew, even calling them a shrew, taming the shrew in itself is very...oh..

In Chinese, we also say like 母老虎, like tigress, we talk about 《河东师吼》that sort of idea of a really aggressive woman in a negative way.

I mean in history, obviously we have evolved… passed that, but for those of you who don't really know what Kiss Me, Kate is about, and why we keep saying we feel a bit uncomfortable or very uncomfortable is both the musical and what it is based on Taming of the Shrew, both are really about outdated idea of how men should tame women that women should be this subservient, quiet, instead of being argumentative, being loud, opinionated.

They should fit the mold that society made rather than be their own person, that idea is very out of date. But that's what this musical and the Shakespeare play are both about. Uncomfortable as we say sometimes.

But to be honest, most of my problems is with the ending. I don't want the main characters to be together, to just say, okay let's have this happy ending where the woman is tamed. If that is not the ending, actually many parts of it, women are also making fun of men.

Yeah, forgetting the ending, there are lots of back and forth between the male and female characters, and there's one song which really shows that is sung by Lilli, which is I Hate Men. It says at all, really, the title tells you everything, “I hate men”.

Lilli or Katherine, she doesn't want to get married, this older sister like we talked about last time, she doesn't want to get married.

She's giving reasons to all the sisters out there who's listening, and she sounds almost like a modern day stand-up comedian in what she says.

Yes, definitely, she makes fun of men in a very witty funny way of doing it, very clever the words that they use.

So for example, she talks about all these types of men, and say what's the problem with each type. She says

“Of all the types I’ve ever met within our democracy, I hate the most the athlete, with his manner bold and brassy. He may have hair upon his chest, but, sister, so has Lassie”

By the way, Lassie is dog's name.

Famous dog in a movie, Lassie.

So you get it.

It's like this man who's trying to be macho, manly, with hair on his chest, but sister, so has Lassie.

It's definitely a funny way of poking fun at the men. Remember this is both ways that men are being nasty to the women in many ways; this is the women having their revenge, their own say in this song.

Let's listen to this bit.

So we've got this song of women making fun of men really saying how men are dogs, they run away, they're not good, but in a comical way. And this is balanced by another song which is men making fun of women. It's a give and take, back and forth attitude within this.

Battle of sexes.

Exactly. It's no one gets the upper hand throughout most of the play.

Through most of the play. Yes.

Do you still remember this when Petruchio this Shakespearean character played by Fred in the musical, and he needed to marry this shrew and he doesn't want to. He is a player. He goes around, dates different women, and he sings this song called Where is the Life that Late I Led, basically means what happened to my old life. And he just directly says, where's the life that late I led? Where is it now? Totally dead.

It's dead. No hiding it. Just where is it gone? It's totally dead. I have to marry this woman. That's it.

He goes on then counting his conquests. All these women he has been with, because he’s set in Italy, he's like

In dear Milano, where are you, Momo,

Still selling those pictures of the Scriptures in the Duomo?

Duomo, if you've been to Milan, is this big cathedral.

And He goes on like

And, Carolina, where are you, Lina,

Still peddling your pizza in the streets o' Taormina?

So goes around Italy, sleeping with women and then…

It's a road trip of his past ladies. Yes, it's all around Italy.

And in ends with

Totally dead.

Where is it now? That life is totally dead. I have to marry this shrew now.

Yes, it's an interesting song with sort of… him remembering all of these different girls, and everything that happened.

In a way, it kind of proves what Katherine was saying.

Yes, it does. Coming after Katherine's song of how men are dogs, they don't care, they'll run around.

Suddenly you've got this character who is so upset because his life of running around is now over.

Yes, sniffing tales.

Still running around Italy, sniffing tales.

Let's listen to this bit.

Em.

But it's not just men. Do you remember this song by Lois, the young actress?

Is that Always True to You in My Fashion?

Yeah.

Yeah. Now I do remember that one. That was an interesting song.

When she talks about how she gets her conquest. But what I love is this sharp contrast when Petruchio or Fred is talking about the women he's been with, he just basically said, okay, now I don't have that life anymore, that life is gone, that life is dead.

But this woman Lois said, “all these men shower me with gifts”, but then she turns around to her boyfriend and say, “but it doesn't matter how many men are showering me with gifts. I'm still true to you”.

It's a very different way of playing around. Fred is sorry for the loss of his life, while Lois’s simply saying it's still happening, but you're special, you're different. It is very similar but different in some ways.

Actually the whole gender politics if you think about it, this is definitely, battle of sexes, definitely touches upon gender roles and also gender politics. We keep saying that we feel uncomfortable about it, but then we are speaking as people in 2022; if you put it in 1950s, this is the period where you see like Marilyn Monroe, the sort of gentlemen preferred blonde that sort of thing, women did use their sexuality as kind of power to get on top. That's their way to be on top back then.

It was, lots of women didn't really have any other option if they wanted to be on top, to get things that they wanted. There was very few options compared to women today. And so this song is demonstrating that it was written when it was normal or might not be normal, but certainly less unusual for women to do that.

And if you really listen to Lois’s Always True to You in My Fashion, you will see the playful seductress, she's calling all the shots, and she goes around, wraps these men around her little finger. I have to admit, in a weird way, that is somewhat of a power trip.

I think it is. Yeah, she is using herself really to get what she wants, and the fact that she's not stopping doing it, it says a lot as well, she's just saying that she's always true to him, forget about everybody else, all their presents, all their gifts, be true to him. And it does feel like she's not going to change her ways.

Exactly, yeah.

She's materialistic. She's about her own enjoyment, but she's almost shamelessly so, so that's the sort of idea. I definitely think you shouldn't really fly today, but still in the context.

In the context, yes. And it is in some ways, I kind of do like the idea that she isn't changing her ways, because to change her ways, would that mean she's confirming to what society says she should do? Or is she going to keep doing what she obviously wants to do? Something to think about there.

Exactly. What is your favorite piece of music in this.

When I was listening to it, one piece that really did sort of stand out, for me it was Brush up Your Shakespeare. I really enjoyed listening to that. That was a very good song.

Brush up Your Shakespeare. It's not sung by the main characters, if you remembered, it’s by the gang members, the Mobsters.

Yeah, the two gangsters that are in the show, suddenly get stuck on stage together, and come out with this song about Shakespeare, and how you should use Shakespeare to impress ladies, which is a tactic, is it? I don't know.

It's so unlikely, you think about them being gangsters and they suddenly appear so cultured. They're like

The girls today in society go for classical poetry.

So to win their hearts one must quote with ease

Aeschylus and Euripides

Yes, 1950s gangsters looking for money suddenly talking about Aeschylus and Euripides and Shakespeare.

A bit of surprise, and Shakespeare, yeah, just Shakespeare and all his shows.

If you listen to Kiss Me, Kate or watch Kiss Me, Kate, definitely listen to this piece of music. We're gonna play a little bit here.

I think before we wrap up today, I just want to say it's hard, isn't it? In this day when we talk about political correctness, sometimes you feel like can you just love a piece of music, for example, for the tunes, even though that it might not be the most PC.

I think that when we have items like this musical, we do have to remember that it was a product of its time. It was written in a time when the social and cultural values were vastly different, in the 60s years or so, since it happened, the world has changed so much.

I think, so long as you know, that it's not the case today, you know, you don't broadcast it being the truth. I think there's nothing wrong with enjoying songs and musicals like this, because they're not your opinions. I don't think there's anything wrong, so long as the context is acknowledged and understood properly.

We can look at it through a more critical lens so to speak.

we can look at things in very critical lenses, but we always do come across the problem of being a product of our time just as this was.

Exactly.

And criticism is different from everybody.

Some people will hear this music and think, it's absolutely terrible, nobody should listen to this because of the ideas.

And that is okay.

And that's absolutely fine. And that's one of the things I think about PC and political correctness. It's nearly impossible to have a universal rule or law because it's based largely on people's opinions. And so long as you understand and respect other people's opinions, then that I think is the way forward.

Excellent. On that note, we're gonna wrap up here. Thank you, Oliver for humoring me, and letting me talk about this controversial musical. Next time you can pick.

I don't know, I liked you doing the big introduction this time, so maybe we'll try another one of yours.

Great. If you have watched this musical, listen to the music, and then if you like it, don't like it, you want to complain about it, leave us a comment in the comment section. We'll see you next time. Bye.

See you later. Bye bye.