Hello again欢迎来到Happy Hour英文小酒馆。关注公众号璐璐的英文小酒馆，加入我们的酒馆社群，邂逅更精彩更广阔的世界。

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Let’s Philosophize, 欢迎回来【知乎哲也】.

In the previous episode of this segment, TJ and I were talking about Ken Mogi’s book about ikigai, the meaning of life. 上一集的【知乎哲也】里，TJ和我们聊到了Ken Mogi 茂木健一郎，他的一本关于日式人生哲学Ikigai 的书。

And int that book, the author talks about five pillars of a happy life, and we were on the 2nd pillar, letting go of your ego. In today’s episode, let’s pick up the conversation from there.

There's a really interesting kind of paradox. There was a piece of research recently where they looked at the people that are interested in self-help like yoga, meditation, and all these kinds of classes. And they found that these people on average are more selfish than people that don't do these things. So there's a kind of paradox.

Perhaps not selfish, may be self-centered.

Right, but the whole idea of these classes is to try and let go of this self-centeredness, but they actually become in a different way, even more self-centered. They're not thinking about money or houses anymore, but they're still thinking about oh how can I get to this higher level of meditation or how can I do this, and it's still very much about you.

So there's a kind of paradox of letting go of your ego, is very.. focused on yourself if you're trying to get rid of change something about yourself, you know.

Yeah, that's very interesting because that's what I have seen as well. I'm really not saying this to judge anyone's lifestyle, but sometimes you got to ask yourself, am I doing this because I truly wanna be humble, I wanna let go, or am I doing this so I can post it on my social media that I have done this.

Yeah.

I have to be honest I think I have way too much ego in this, and that's something I want to work on actually.

I definitely think if you.. if you want to放弃自我，if you really want to do that, just go and help somebody that's very old, and has a very bad temper, and go and help them clean their house.

And then that's the fastest way to get rid of this kind of self-importance because no matter how much you help them, no matter how nice you are, they will still just shout at you, and tell you you did it wrong. So this is very, very traditional way of getting rid of this selfish feeling I think.

这种无我状态，it sounds a bit like苦行僧，right? You're going through all these difficulties, perhaps put yourself in a harsh environment in order to achieve that level.

But let me get this topic back a little bit, so we don't just keep going down that path. What about the third pillar? So far we've talked about two pillars. We had “starting small”, we had “releasing yourself” , letting go of your ego.

What about number three？

So number three is harmony and sustainability. And this is being in balance with the world around you, and we're not just talking about the natural world but the social world too.

And I think that this is something that I really like about eastern culture again is that they don't have this very clear distinction between the individual and then，the family and then, the community. They see them all reflected in each other.

And I think it's a more accurate way of understanding things. So you can't really be happy in this idea. You can't really be happy on your own. To be happy is to be part of a happy community, is to be part of a happy family or some kind of connections with the people around you.

And this whole harmony sustainability is what you see in government documents now. You know the idea of “和谐社会”. That's harmony，right？And also“可持续发展”that's sustainability.

So it's not just individual lives，it's also, like you said, in social life and it's not just an individual point of view，it's the entire... I would say, in China that there has always been a culture of pursuing harmony and sustainability.

Yeah, I think you're right. It goes very deep, and this tension, so this tension between the individual and then, the collective, this is a problem that every society has to solve in some way, because, of course, I am me, and I'm the only person if I feel sad，I'm the only person that feels sad, the people down the road don't feel sad; but in some way, if everybody is sad，then we do affect each other as well.

So trying to solve that kind of tension is a really difficult question that we could talk about for a very long time，but just to use an example that he uses in the book of this，which I think is quite different，unusual way of thinking about it. He talks about this 侘び寂び (*罗马音为wabi-sabi，指闲寂幽雅。朴实无华的闲寂趣味，是日本美术和茶道的基本理念。)

Another Japanese idea.

Yeah，this idea of finding beauty in the used and the old houses，old places and something that you've had for a long time, and I immediately thought of my books，the books I love the most are the books that I've read over and over again. And the beauty of those books is the tea stains and the worn pages and the fact that these books are old and used and loved.

I don't want to buy a new book. I would rather keep，in fact，I'd be very sad if I had to buy a new book. I want this old book, because this book is mine and it is beautiful.

It's beautiful in its imperfection, 这种“残缺之美”，侘び寂び，“侘寂”. Do you know that this idea... everyone thinking about 侘び寂び, they obviously think of a particular part of Japanese culture，but this, the whole idea actually started from China, ages ago.

The story is about some kind of broken bowl，right？

I'm not sure if we heard the same story，but definitely, this was from, I believe, maybe like in Taoism, back in the Song dynasty. That's based on my background understanding. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure, but certainly, in Chinese history，we had that sort of idea as well—finding beauty in imperfection.

Now I have to read more Song Dynasty Taoism，because I only know it from this book.

I forgot it was Taoism or Buddhism. I'm not sure. Okay, so that's a little bit about the harmony and sustainability. I think this part is quite easy for a Chinese to relate to, for us to understand. So what are the other two pillars？

The last two are the “joy of little things” and “being in the Here and Now”. So we have kind of talked about these ones before. In the book, he doesn't give each one a chapter. He kind of blends them altogether. I think we've been doing the same thing when we talk about them.

So “starting small and the joy of little things”...

Kind of linked.

...they often very closely connected, and the same thing with “being in the Here and Now” as well. These are all really really connected together. And I think there's a really beautiful little piece of Chinese philosophy again，I'm sure the listeners can see that I've been reading a lot of eastern philosophy recently. It's the western inscription by Zhang Zai, and he says:

Heaven is called my father, and Earth is called my mother.

And I, this tiny thing,

find an intimate place in their mist.

Hence, what fills Heaven and Earth is my body,

what directs Heaven and Earth is my nature.

All people are my siblings, and all living things are my companions.

(乾称父，坤称母；予兹藐焉，乃混然中处。故天地之塞，吾其体；天地之帅，吾其性。民，吾同胞；物，吾与也。

张载（1020年—1077年），字子厚，凤翔郿县（今陕西眉县）横渠镇人，北宋思想家、教育家、理学创始人之一。世称横渠先生，尊称张子，封先贤，奉祀孔庙西庑第38位。其“为天地立心，为生民立命，为往圣继绝学，为万世开太平”的名言被当代哲学家冯友兰称作“横渠四句”，因其言简意宏，历代传颂不衰。　)

I think that's a really beautiful way to sum up all of these pillars together. You know this very intimate thread between connecting everything, and trying to find a balance and enjoying those things is really important for us.

It's“张载的《西铭》”. It's basically like a quite idealistic view of the world, of how he saw himself or he sees himself, right？

Yeah, I think that's why it's nice to read. Depressing Philosophers are not as fun to read，especially during hard times. But I do think this idea of interconnectedness, and this is again, shown by psychological research—people that think that they are connected to the world and other people are usually happier, and that people that are more individualistic are usually more lonely. And so we have this little paradox that we have, and I think that this is really what Ken Mogi is talking about as well, we have this paradox that we try to have things that make our life easier，maybe things that help us in the kitchen， things that make our life easier.

But in the end，they also hide something from us as well, that we just go from one task to the next，doing things that are important，but not really seeing the connection between ourselves and the things around us.

Maybe in a more automated mechanical lifestyle, this is the sort of challenge we have to face, because in more, for lack of a better word，in more primitive time without all these modern machines，people probably felt more connected to nature in a way.

But nowadays, obviously, the pace of life…everything has changed. I think even though we say social media connects us every day，we seems like... it never stops，this connection never stops，but sometimes it does make me feel lonelier even though with all these connections or seeming connections to the world.

Yeah, and again, it’s this focus on certain kinds of connections as well. Maybe connections that are for something. So you have this idea in Taoism of just sitting quietly, and just listening to the leaves, and the music of the world around you. And I do think there's something in that as well. Unfortunately，don't think you can just turn the clock back and we can all go back to living in tiny villages and I don't think we would want to plant seeds and grow them.

Modern life has its ups. Modern life definitely has its benefits. I'm not trying to go back，but maybe we will have just a better life if we learn to appreciate some of the, like you said, the joy of little things. It's a lovely share about this book and I definitely want to read it，but because time is limited，let me draw this discussion to a close. Since we were talking about the joy of little things，can you give us an example like “How do you find joy of little things in your life at the moment？”

I think the joy of little things for me at the moment is just quiet. There are some moments when everything stops，there's no noise around me and maybe I'm reading or maybe I'm just cleaning my teeth and there's just no noise. Nobody expects anything of me for a brief moment, and that for me is the joy of really being present in those moments. That's the joy of little things for me. What about you, Lulu？

For me is at the end of a very，very busy，very stressful day, I'm alone in my study, and I take out my knitting needles and I put something I like on, like either music or some other sound and then I just knit and I just clear my mind，other people meditate，I knit. I know it sounds so old，sounds very old，but it is something I really got into.

Okay, and to our listeners, what kind of joy of little things can you find in your life? Share with us in the comment section. 和我们分享你的小确幸. And if you have a chance, go read Ken Mogi’s book about 生き甲斐, and on that note，thank you TJ for coming to the studio.

Thank you for having me.

We'll see you next time.

Bye!

Goodbye!