Now, this is Joanna. Joanna works at a university in Poland.
这是乔安娜。她在波兰的一所大学工作。
And one Saturday morning at 3am, she got up, packed her rucksack and traveled more than a thousand kilometers,
一个周六的凌晨三点，她起床，背好背包，穿越一千多公里，
only to have a political argument with a stranger.
只为了跟一个陌生人进行一场政治辩论。
His name is Christof, and he's a customer manager from Germany. And the two had never met before.
他叫克里斯托夫，是德国的一个客户经理。他们此前从未见过面。
They only knew that they were totally at odds over European politics,
只知道彼此在欧洲政治问题上意见不一，
over migration, or the relationship to Russia or whatever.
无论是移民问题，跟俄罗斯的关系问题，还是其他。
And they were arguing for almost one day.
他们的辩论将会持续约一整天。
And after that, Joanna sent me a somewhat irritating email.
乔安娜给我发了一条有点令人着恼的邮件。
"That was really cool, and I enjoyed every single minute of it!"
“真是太爽了。每一分钟我都十分享受！”
So these are Tom from the UK and Nils from Germany.
这是来自英国的汤姆和来自德国的尼尔斯。
They also were strangers, and they are both supporters of their local football team,
他们对彼此来说也是陌生人，支持着各自所居住地的足球队，
as you may imagine, Borussia Dortmund and Tottenham Hotspurs.
就像你想到的，多特蒙德和托特纳姆热刺。
And so they met on the very spot where football roots were invented, on some field in Cambridge.
他们在足球的发明地，也就是剑桥，见了面。
And they didn't argue about football, but about Brexit.
他们没有围绕足球的事争论，而是围绕着英国脱欧。
And after talking for many hours about this contentious topic, they also sent a rather unexpected email.
在围绕这个有争议的话题讨论好几个小时之后，他们也给我发了一封让我意想不到的邮件。
"It was delightful, and we both enjoyed it very much."
“很开心，我们都很享受这个过程。”
So in spring 2019, more than 17,000 Europeans from 33 countries signed up to have a political argument.
2019年春，超过17000名来自33个不同国家的欧洲人同意进行政治辩论。
Thousands crossed their borders to meet a stranger with a different opinion,
成千上万的人带着自己的观点跨过国界与陌生人辩论，
and they were all part of a project called "Europe Talks."
而他们只是这个叫做“欧洲对话”项目的一个小小的组成部分。
Now, talking about politics amongst people with different opinions has become really difficult, not only in Europe.
怀有不同意见的人讨论政治十分困难，这个问题不仅存在于欧洲。
Families are splitting, friends no longer talk to each other. We stay in our bubbles.
家庭因此分裂，朋友之间不再聊天。我们躲在各自的气泡里。
And these so-called filter bubbles are amplified by social media, but they are not, in the core, a digital product.
然后这些过滤气泡再被媒体渲染的更夸张，但本质上它们不是这个科技产物。
The filter bubble has always been there. It's in our minds.
这种过滤气泡一直存在于我们的思想中。
As many studies repeatedly have shown, we, for example, ignore effects that contradict our convictions.
大量研究不断证明，我们会忽视与我们认可的结论相悖的东西造成的影响。
So correcting fake news is definitely necessary, but it's not sufficient to get a divided society to rethink itself.
所以修正假新闻是非常有必要的，但这样做并不足以让一个分裂的社会反思自身。
Fortunately, according to at least some research, there may be a simple way to get a new perspective:
幸运的是，部分研究表明，世界上存在让人获得新观点的简单方法：
a personal one-on-one discussion with someone who doesn't have your opinion.
即跟与你意见不同的人进行一场一对一的讨论。
It enables you to see the world in a new way, through someone else's eyes.
它会让你透过别人的视角用心的方式看待世界。
Now, I'm the editor of "ZEIT ONLINE," one of the major digital news organizations in Germany.
我是《时代在线》杂志的编辑，该杂志是德国主流数字媒体之一。
And we started what became "Europe Talks" as a really modest editorial exercise.
“欧洲对话”原本只是我们做的一个非常简单的编辑练习。
As many journalists, we were impressed by Trump and by Brexit,
跟很多记者一样，我们也对特朗普和英国脱欧的新闻很感兴趣，
and Germany was getting divided, too, especially over the issue of migration.
德国人的分歧也越来越大，特别是在移民问题上。
So the arrival of more than a million refugees in 2015 and 2016 dominated somewhat the debate.
2015年到2016年间，德国接收了超过1百万名难民，这个问题几乎成为所有辩论的主题。
And when we were thinking about our own upcoming election in 2017,
当我们思考2017年即将到来的选举时，
we definitely knew that we had to reinvent the way we were dealing with politics.
我们当然知道，我们必须彻底改变我们处理政治的方式。
So digital nerds that we are, we came up with obviously many very strange digital product ideas,
作为工科直男，我们想出了很多奇怪的点子，
one of them being a Tinder for politics...
其中就包括用Tinder聊政治，
a dating platform for political opposites, a tool that could help get people together with different opinions.
它是政治对立者的约会平台，也是我们用来把所有意见不一的人聚集到一起的工具。
And we decided to test it and launched what techies would call a "minimum viable product." So it was really simple.
我们决定测试一下，开发了一个工程师所说的最小化可行产品。方法很简单。
We called it "Deutschland spricht" -- "Germany Talks" -- and we started with that in May 2017. And it was really simple.
我们把它叫做“Deutschland spricht”，也就是“德国对话”，2017年五月正式启动。真的非常简单。
We used mainly Google Forms, a tool that each and every one of us here can use to make surveys online.
我们用了谷歌，在座的每一位都可以用它来做在线调查。
And everywhere in our content, we embedded simple questions like this:
在内容部分，我们提出了像这样简单的问题：
"Did Germany take in too many refugees?" You click yes or no.
“德国接受的难民数量太多了吗？”然后你选择是还是不是。
We asked you more questions, like, "Does the West treat Russia fairly?" or, "Should gay couples be allowed to marry?"
我们会问更多问题，比如“西方国家对俄罗斯公平吗？”或者“同性情侣可以结婚吗？”
And if you answered all these questions, we asked one more question:
都回答完以后，我们会再问一个问题：
"Hey, would you like to meet a neighbor who totally disagrees with you?"
“你想跟一个跟你意见完全相反的人见一面吗？”
So this was a really simple experiment with no budget whatsoever.
这个实验原本非常简单，也没有做预算。
We expected some hundred-ish people to register, and we planned to match them by hand, the pairs.
本来我们只想邀请100人左右注册，然后我们再手动给他们配对。
And after one day, 1,000 people had registered.
一天以后，有1000人注册。
And after some weeks, 12,000 Germans had signed up to meet someone else with a different opinion. So we had a problem.
几周后，12000德国人注册，想要见一个跟自己意见完全不同的人。于是问题来了。
We hacked a quick and dirty algorithm that would find the perfect Tinder matches,
我们破解了一个可以快速找到完美匹配的算法，
like people living as close as possible having answered the questions as differently as possible.
比如找到住的尽可能近而回答差异尽可能大的两个人。
We introduced them via email. And, as you may imagine, we had many concerns.
我们用邮件介绍他们认识。就像你们想的那样，我们担心很多问题。
Maybe no one would show up in real life. Maybe all the discussions in real life would be awful.
也许没有人现实生活中会真的站出来。也许真人面对面的讨论结果会非常糟糕。
Or maybe we had an axe murderer in our database.
或者也许我们的数据库里会出现一位巨斧杀手。
But then, on a Sunday in June 2017, something beautiful happened.
然后在2017年6月的一个周日，发生了一些很美好的事。
Thousands of Germans met in pairs and talked about politics peacefully. Like Anno.
上千个德国人成对出现，和平的讨论着政治。比如阿诺。
He's a former policeman who's against -- or was against -- gay marriage,
他曾是德国的一位警察，非常反对，或者曾经非常反对，同性婚姻，
and Anne, she's an engineer who lives in a domestic partnership with another woman.
安妮是一位工程师，她跟另一位女性生活在一起。
And they were talking for hours about all the topics where they had different opinions.
围绕着他们有分歧的话题，他们聊了好几个小时。
At one point, Anno told us later, he realized that Anne was hurt by his statements about gay marriage,
阿诺随后告诉我们，他有一瞬间意识到自己关于同性婚姻的言论伤害了安妮，
and he started to question his own assumptions.
于是开始质疑自己的原有观念。
And after talking for three hours, Anne invited Anno to her summer party,
在聊了3个小时后，安妮邀请阿诺去参加她的夏季聚会，
and today, years later, they still meet from time to time and are friends.
几年后的今天，他们还是时不时的见面，跟彼此成为了朋友。
So our algorithm matched, for example, this court bailiff.
我们的算法还匹配了这对法院工作人员。
He's also a spokesperson of the right-wing populist party AfD in Germany, and this counselor for pregnant women.
他同时还是德国右翼平民党派选择党的发言人，这位是孕妇的咨询顾问。

She used to be an active member of the Green Party.
她曾经还是绿党的一位积极分子。
We even matched this professor and his student. It's an algorithm.
我们还匹配到了教授和他的学生。都是算法的锅。
We also matched a father-in-law and his very own daughter-in-law,
我们还匹配到了一对公公和儿媳妇，
because, obviously, they live close by but have really different opinions.
很显然，他们住在同一屋檐下却常常意见不合。
So as a general rule, we did not observe, record, document the discussions,
我们的原则是不观察或记录他们的对话，
because we didn't want people to perform in any way.
因为我们不希望他们是在表演。
But I made an exception. I took part myself.
但也有例外。我自己也参与了。
And so I met in my trendy Berlin neighborhood called Prenzlauer Berg, I met Mirko.
我们在普伦茨劳贝格区见面，就这样我遇见了米尔科。
This is me talking to Mirko. Mirko didn't want to be in the picture.
这是我在跟米尔科对话。米尔科不愿意出镜。
He's a young plant operator, and he looked like all the hipsters in our area, like with a beard and a beanie.
他是一位年轻的生产操作员，打扮就跟我们那儿的嬉皮士一模一样，留着胡子，戴着小便帽。
We were talking for hours, and I found him to be a wonderful person.
我们聊了好几个小时，我发现他人不错。
And despite the fact that we had really different opinions about most of the topics
尽管在大多数问题上我们分歧很大，
maybe with the exception of women's rights, where I couldn't comprehend his thoughts -- it was really nice.
可能女性权利的问题不包括在内，关于这个我完全无法理解他的想法，对话进行的很愉快。
After our discussion, I Googled Mirko. And I found out that in his teenage years, he used to be a neo-Nazi.
讨论过后，我在谷歌上搜索了米尔科得名字。我了解到在少年时期他是一名新纳粹主义者。
So I called him and asked, "Hey, why didn't you tell me?"
于是我给他打电话问：“为什么这个你没告诉我？”
And he said, "You know, I didn't tell you because I want to get over it. I just don't want to talk about it anymore."
他说：“不告诉你是因为我想让它过去。我只是不想再提起了。”
I thought that people with a history like that could never change, and I had to rethink my assumptions,
我曾以为有那样经历的人永远无法改变，而现在我要重新考虑了，
as did many of the participants who sent us thousands of emails and also selfies. No violence was recorded whatsoever.
就像那些给我们发了上千封邮件还有自拍的参与者一样。我们没有发现有暴力事件发生。
And we just don't know if some of the pairs got married.
我们也不知道是否有配对的人结了婚。
But, at least, we were really excited and wanted to do it again,
但至少，我们很激动，并且想要再进行一次这样的活动，
especially in version 2.0, wanted to expand the diversity of the participants,
特别是在2.0版本，我们想增加参与者的多样性，
because obviously in the first round, they were mainly our readers.
因为很显然第一次得参与者主要是我们的读者。
And so we embraced our competition and asked other media outlets to join. We coordinated via Slack.
我们也接纳了对手，邀请其他媒体机构参与。我们通过Slack平台展开合作。
And this live collaboration among 11 major German media houses was definitely a first in Germany.
这场集齐了德国11家主流媒体的合作直播绝对是德国首例。
The numbers more than doubled: 28,000 people applied this time.
这次的人数是上次的两倍还多：申请者达到了28000人。
And the German president -- you see him here in the center of the picture -- became our patron.
并且这次德国总理--可以看到他在照片中间--成为了我们的赞助人。
And so, thousands of Germans met again in the summer of 2018 to talk to someone else with a different opinion.
于是，数千位德国人在2018年夏天再次聚集到一起，跟与他们意见不一的人对话。
Some of the pairs we invited to Berlin to a special event.
我们邀请了其中几对到柏林参加一场特殊的活动。
And there, this picture was taken, until today my favorite symbol for "Germany Talks."
就在那里我们拍了这张照片，这是我直到今天依然最爱的“德国对话”的标志。
You see Henrik, a bus driver and boxing trainer, and Engelbert, the director of a children's help center.
这是亨里克，是一名大巴司机和拳击教练，这是恩格尔贝特，儿童帮助中心的主任。
They answered all of the seven questions we asked differently.
他们都回答了我们提的7个问题，而且答案截然相反。
They had never met before this day,
此前他们从未见过彼此，
and they had a really intensive discussion and seemed to get along anyway with each other.
却顺利的进行了一场对话，而且两人看起来相处的很愉快。
So this time we also wanted to know if the discussion would have any impact on the participants.
我们想知道这样的讨论是否会对参与者产生什么样的影响。
So we asked researchers to survey the participants.
于是我们请研究人员对他们进行了调查。
And two-thirds of the participants said that they learned something about their partner's attitudes.
三分之二的参与者表示他们了解到了同伴的态度。
Sixty percent agreed that their viewpoints converged.
百分之六十的人认为他们的观点融合了。
The level of trust in society seemed also higher after the event, according to the researchers.
研究人员还表示，此次讨论后社会的信任等级似乎得到了提高。
Ninety percent said that they enjoyed their discussion.
百分之九十的人说很享受这种讨论。
Ten percent said they didn't enjoy their discussion, eight percent only because, simply, their partner didn't show up.
百分之十的人说他们不喜欢这种讨论，而其中百分之八的人讨厌的原因仅仅是因为他们匹配到的同伴没有露面。
After "Germany Talks," we got approached by many international media outlets,
“德国对话”之后，很多家国际媒体机构主动接触了我们，
and we decided this time to build a serious and secure platform. We called it "My Country Talks."
我们也决定要认真的搭建一个安全地平台。我们把它叫做“我的国家对话”。
And in this short period of time, "My Country Talks" has already been used for more than a dozen local and national events
在很短的时间内，“我的国家对话”的形式已经被很广泛的应用于十几个地方及国家的活动，
like "Het grote gelijk" in Belgium or "Suomi puhuu" in Finland or "Britain Talks" in the UK.
出现了“比利时对话”、“芬兰对话”和“英国对话”等。
And as I mentioned at the beginning,
正如我开始时提到的，
we also launched "Europe Talks," together with 15 international media partners, from the "Financial Times" in the UK to "Helsingin Sanomat" in Finland.
我们还跟包括英国《金融时报》和芬兰的《赫尔辛基报》在内的15家国际媒体合作，启动了“欧洲对话”。
Thousands of Europeans met with a total stranger to argue about politics.
上千名欧洲人与陌生人见面一起讨论政治。
So far, we have been approached by more than 150 global media outlets,
截至目前，有超过150家国际媒体联系了我们，
and maybe someday there will be something like "The World Talks," with hundreds of thousands of participants.
也许有一天我们会见到成千上万的参与者加入到我们的“世界对话”中来。
But what matters here are not the numbers, obviously. What matters here is ...
但显然最重要的不是参与人数。重要的是...
Whenever two people meet to talk in person for hours without anyone else listening, they change. And so do our societies.
只要两个人在没有旁人干扰的情况下面对面的交流数小时，他们就会发生改变。我们的社会也一样。
They change little by little, discussion by discussion.
它们可以通过一次次的讨论一点点的发生变化。
What matters here is that we relearn how to have these face-to-face discussions, without anyone else listening, with a stranger.
重要的是我们再次学会了如何在没有其他人聆听的情况下，跟一个陌生人进行一场面对面的讨论。
Not only with a stranger we are introduced to by a Tinder for politics,
不仅仅是跟一个由我们通过用Tinder谈政治这样的平台介绍的陌生人，
but also with a stranger in a pub or in a gym or at a conference.
还可以是在酒吧、体育馆或者是某个会议上见到的陌生人。
So please meet someone and have an argument and enjoy it very much. Thank you. Wow!
所以请去见一个人，去跟他辩论，去享受辩论的过程。谢谢大家。哇哦！